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【ガンダムオリジン】ジオン・ズム・ダイクンとかいうみんな知ってるけど何をしたかはよく知らない人

1: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:25:50▼このレスに返信

ジオン・ズム・ダイクンスレ
名前はみんな知ってるけど何をしたかはよく知らない人

4: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:27:02▼このレスに返信

>1
シャアとセイラを作った

2: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:26:22▼このレスに返信

ブスでババアはつらかった正直者

7: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:29:04▼このレスに返信

>2
若い頃はそれなりの美人だったかも・・・

8: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:29:50▼このレスに返信

>7
しかも何でもやらせてくれたし

11: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:31:57▼このレスに返信

>8
愛人の存在を黙認するとか割と器量のでかいおばはん
旦那を寝取ったアストレイアにはアレだけど
シャアとセイラには一応ダイクンの血が流れてるからって一目置いてたし

9: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:31:02▼このレスに返信

>7
服とかに貴族っぷりがにじみ出てて更にキツイ

13: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:32:38▼このレスに返信

>2
若いころは可愛かったのに・・・

3: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:26:47▼このレスに返信

自分の名前が国の名前になるって恥ずかしそう

15: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:33:14▼このレスに返信

>3
ジオン共和国と名付けられたのは死後だけどね
さすがに存命中につけてたらちょっとやばすぎる

5: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:27:43▼このレスに返信

小説ではアジテーターの才能はあるものの政治家としては無能だったらしい

6: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:28:24▼このレスに返信

思想の内容は逆シャアでシャアの演説で大体語ってる

19: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:37:04▼このレスに返信

オリジン版はちょっと作者の思想入り過ぎてて

24: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:39:29▼このレスに返信

>19
思想というか実体験じゃないか
イケメンで口のうまい学のある奴が財力のある女
捕まえて運動の中心人物になるとか学生運動そのまんまだし

30: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:42:34▼このレスに返信

>24
その辺り王道の狗でも同じようなの描いてたな

20: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:38:01▼このレスに返信

レーニンと正妻と愛人モデル説見てへーってなった

43: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:49:34▼このレスに返信

>20
奥さん目つき悪っ！

45: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:52:30▼このレスに返信

>43
生まれつきなのかそれともカメラの前だと目つき険しくなる癖なのか
とにかく若い頃は美しい

50: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:57:38▼このレスに返信

>45
そんなとこまで
で再現しなくても・・・
レーニンが死ぬほど可哀想な叔父さんに見えて来るじゃないか

51: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:57:39▼このレスに返信

>45
ロシア系はみんなそうやな

49: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:56:00▼このレスに返信

レーニン嫁は思想家庭の両面でレーニンに生涯尽くした糟糠の妻なんだけどね
子供がいなかったのは同じだが

58: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:01:19▼このレスに返信

>49
ぶっちゃけ革命家の奥さんなんて
あれくらいの眼力が無いと亭主支えれないよね

65: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:04:39▼このレスに返信

>58
レーニン母「生活を支えたのは母である私、倅の生活費の為に先祖代々の家屋敷や領地も売りました」

39: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:47:31▼このレスに返信

オリジンはハモンさんがエロ過ぎた

41: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:48:53▼このレスに返信

>39
ハモンさんは正直あんま好きじゃなかったけど
シャア誕生のロリハモンさんで惚れてしまった

48: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:55:51▼このレスに返信

運動家が過激なことやって支持されて政治家になった結果過激な主張を続けてみんながそれに踊らされた、って意味では全部ジオンダイクンのせい

52: 名無し 2020/12/11 21:57:57▼このレスに返信

>48
そこら辺の汚名や責任はザビ家が肩代わりしてくれたので・・
逆にダイクンが神格化されて残党がいつまでも消えない悪循環となってる

56: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:00:03▼このレスに返信

なんか演説してる時に死んだ人だけどデギンに殺されたんだっけ

57: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:01:16▼このレスに返信

>56
真相は「藪の中」

61: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:02:19▼このレスに返信

>56
感情の起伏がやたら激しかったり｢何日もまともに休んでないから寝てください｣なんて言われてるし神経とかもうぼろぼろだったんじゃないの？

62: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:02:34▼このレスに返信

>56
はっきりと明言されてないけどオリジンでは
不摂生と過労から来る心臓発作と描かれている
ファーストアニメ版は毒殺だけど

63: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:04:07▼このレスに返信

デギンがあの場面で殺すとは思えないんだけどなぁ
ろくに準備してないし
ただ耳打ちを改ざんor捏造したのは絶対あると思う

69: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:07:18▼このレスに返信

>63
本当に取って代わるつもりならまず跡継ぎの
キャスバル＆セイラを殺して後継者のいなくなったダイクンにガルマ辺りを養子に押し付けそうだよな

70: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:07:55▼このレスに返信

>>デギンがあの場面で殺すとは思えないんだけどなぁ
デギンさん基本的には穏健派だしな

74: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:11:36▼このレスに返信

>70
長男がダイクンの血を分けた息子以上に
ダイクンの思想を受け継いでるとは皮肉すぎる

71: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:09:50▼このレスに返信

デギン的には世俗的欲望が低くて御しやすいダイクンが神輿であった方が都合がいいだろうからな

93: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:35:50▼このレスに返信

デキンが暗殺したのかは藪の中だが少なくともオリジンでは漫画でもアニメでもダイクンが死んだときは本気で驚いてんだよな

73: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:10:39▼このレスに返信

この人は何かの大病を患った後遺症が顔に出てる

地球連邦政府が重税をかけたというよりもジオン共和国が
地球連邦から独立したのを理由に膨大な補助金を止めて
輸出入に関税をかけるようになったのがジオンが経済的に
窮乏した理由　つまり何でも値段が高くなった
コロニー居住者の生活環境の質を良好に保つには凄まじい
投資と維持費を必要とするが連邦政府が地球民にかけた
重税でコロニーに補助金出してたのが結果的に反宇宙移民
反ジオン感情と世論につながっていく

75: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:14:17▼このレスに返信

>73
連邦が関税をかけたの？

80: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:23:36▼このレスに返信

>73
コロニーの建造費や維持費を移民たちに負担させたからじゃないか
空気にまで税金と言う名の連邦政府負債の回収が行われるコロニーに対して
空気がただな地球に居座り続ける連邦中枢
さらにコロニーの生産力が高まると生産物は安く買い叩かれ逆に地球から輸入する生活必需品はバカ高く売りつけられる植民地状態で反感が高まった

92: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:34:28▼このレスに返信

>80
税金なんてそんなもんだぞ

96: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:38:16▼このレスに返信

>92
税の平等って原則に反している
コロニー側からすれば地球は空気はタダなのになんで俺たちは・・って思いを抱かせたのは失策だろう

76: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:15:05▼このレスに返信

宇宙世紀の混乱のもと

94: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:36:12▼このレスに返信

宇宙まで出てやってんのが前時代的なのがめっちゃ違和感ある

95: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:37:14▼このレスに返信

>94
そこまで徹底的にやったらもしもできたらたぶん人はついていけない

97: 名無し 2020/12/11 22:38:20▼このレスに返信

むしろ地球から離れたから変な懐古主義が生まれるんやろ

1. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/11(Fri) 23:57:47 ID：c4c1d2ebf ★コメ返信★

幼少の頃のアルテイシアが普通に懐いていたから、あの場面だけで人柄を判断する事は出来ないよな。

あの場面のダイクンは、心労がたたって少し錯乱状態になってしまったんだろうな。普段の家庭では良い父親なのかもしれない。
2. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 01:16:45 ID：3e775b8f8 ★コメ返信★

言うほどクルプスカヤ若い頃も美人かな…
まあワイの百倍は美形だけど
イネッサ・アルマンドは文句のつけようがない美人
3. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 01:18:37 ID：d291943b5 ★コメ返信★

いや1stはデギンとギレンがジオンを殺して
デギンはそれを後悔してる、ってのを示唆する会話があるでしょ
4. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 01:37:16 ID：35d4c5495 ★コメ返信★

1stにしろORIGINにしろ連邦政府との交渉による独立は行き詰まっていたんだよな
5. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 02:38:16 ID：f36d1b75a ★コメ返信★

所詮思想家には政治なんかできないんだから革命終わったらさっさと隠居なり思想家に戻るなりしろっていう一例
6. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 06:05:59 ID：491a573e2 ★コメ返信★

宇宙移民開始から100年経過してるんだしいい加減植民地扱いは止めてくれってジオンの主張自体は理解出来るし、スペースコロニーの建造費用と維持費回収がまだ終わってないんだよふざけんなって連邦政府のスタンスもせやなとしか言えない。
オリジン版は特に顕著だけどジオンが焦り過ぎたのがなあ。
7. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 07:53:36 ID：2a1c061e3 ★コメ返信★

そもそも宇宙移民は国政参加権がないという基本的人権に制約掛かってる状態だし（なので人口多数派なのに一切政治的存在感がない）
サイド3やサイド6（ランク政権）が武力で自治政府打ち立てた流れから、地方自治も極めて限定的な権限しか与えられてない。
ＺＺじゃサイドの代表者が市長と呼ばれてたレベル
8. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 08:21:46 ID：a8bc5e6f1 ★コメ返信★

彼がいなければ、人類が半減することもなかったし、後々の戦乱も無かったかもしれない。
9. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 09:07:43 ID：4d3b6c51e ★コメ返信★

けおりすぎて死んだ男
10. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 11:52:12 ID：be1b9a74d ★コメ返信★

安彦節全開の夢想家ジオンは嫌い。
1stアニメのほうの実態は不明だけど、おそらくキング牧師的な存在なんだろうなと。
11. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 14:52:57 ID：00c867ee6 ★コメ返信★

オリジンのはレーニン説がそうなら死際の遺言改竄はわりとあり得るかも　
実際のレーニンもスターリンだけは後継者にするなと遺言してたけどあろうことかその遺言書をスターリンが見つけたから守られなかったしね

反応:※13
12. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 21:23:34 ID：4f22b2832 ★コメ返信★

一番ラプラスの箱を渡しちゃいけない人だよね。
ザビ家一党以上に悪用しそう。
13. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/12(Sat) 22:40:07 ID：be1b9a74d ★コメ返信★

※11
後継者ではなく、レーニンがスターリンを書記長から解任するよう手紙書いただけ。
実際はもうレーニンの権威はなく、７人組の台頭と同時にトロツキーが主流派と対立して失脚してるから受け入れられなかっただけ。トロツキーでさえレーニンの要請を拒否してる。
14. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/13(Sun) 13:12:05 ID：cdd15d440 ★コメ返信★

ローゼルシアは事情が分からないままオリジン見るとなんだこのババアはだけど事情が分かった後だと同情しかできない
アストライアたちと住んでた家もローゼルシアが提供したんじゃなかったっけ
15. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/17(Thu) 05:47:30 ID：415862f5b ★コメ返信★

空気にまで税金を圧政の象徴みたいにいうけど、実際に人口の環境下じゃ公費でやるしかないことだししゃーないじゃん
16. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/18(Fri) 16:02:24 ID：9d6a00de8 ★コメ返信★

宗教の教祖だから信者たちは止まらない。
17. 名前:匿名投稿日：2020/12/23(Wed) 11:15:40 ID：e653e2a4f ★コメ返信★

オリジン版を読むまでは、ザビ家は造船会社か鉱山会社の経営一家かなにかで、ラル家は代々軍人の一家だと思ってた
そこへジオン・ズム・ダイクンがカリスマとして現れ、共に地球側と対立、というストーリーを妄想していた

結局1stのアニメで彼が何をしたか語られないのは、中高生がWW2が始まった理由に興味がないのと同じに、WBのクルーがほぼ十代で戦争のきっかけに興味がない事の暗喩なのかなと思う
18. 名前:MilitaryGirl 投稿日：2022/04/15(Fri) 07:00:52 ID：fab79b9c4 ★コメ返信★

(}lOr&PN) こんにちは、私はウクライナから来ました。私は移転オプションを探しています。あなたが私を助けたいのなら、ここに私の写真とビデオがあります: >>>ujeb.se/WPRc5K
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